Secondly don't think of engines working better at different altitudes, think of them working better with different air intake quantities. How do you get out of a corner when plotting yourself into a corner. "Whiplash" Turbojet. Let me. At altitude the nose goes up and down until it goes out of control. Incidentally, for these speeds and altitudes, ordinary jets are the better choice. Thankyou all, I now reckon I have a much better understanding of the engines, hopefully that'll translate to better aircraft. If it's below the cross-hairs, you need a little more AoA. The Boeing X-37, also known as the Orbital Test Vehicle (OTV), is a reusable robotic spacecraft. EDIT: Didn't notice you were using FAR. - "In Space Low" means your craft is inside the "Space Border" altitude and in an orbital path. Make sure you have lots of control surfaces because at very high in the atmosphere, there's not much air for the wings to control the craft with. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. Not only does it conk out at high altitudes, but also it conks out at high speeds, and you need to be able to go fast to fly up high. Third, which I haven't given a good try, would be a carefully-timed deorbit maneuver so you come down through your desired location as you fall from space. Is anywhere a list of the altitude levels (I don't know a better term) available? What you should be concerned about is atmospheric drag, and that's minimized by high-altitude flight. Do plugins for Kerbal Space Program work on unix? A temple in the desert (6 29 47 S 141 40 3 W) known as Tut-Un Jeb-Ahn, although this name can only be seen when a vessel crashes into it. The X-37 is operated by the United States Space Force for orbital spaceflight missions intended to demonstrate reusable space technologies. 2/3 (KSP 1.11.2) - YouTube I break out the Mk2 parts and Panther engines to build a better jet that can go higher and faster. Subscribe -. Ideally, you'll want to avoid these contracts until you get the High-Altitude Flight tech node and the improved jet engine that comes with it. with a thrust vectoring range of only 3 degrees. The more successful the flights, the more successful the space program is. Why do many companies reject expired SSL certificates as bugs in bug bounties? I start with the normal jet engines (which takes almost the complete runway). I've since shaved that down more but that was by going even higher and even faster). If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. This tutorial will cover designing and flying a plane that can soar at high altitudes! This lowers their effective "weight"-- for example, a craft flying at 1400 m/s on Kerbin is effectively flying as if gravity were only 2/3 of its actual value. 1 Pod outside the level 3 VAB. I was hoping that the new intakes would give it the added altitude. Only the fuel tanks attached to rockets have any oxidiser in them. This means it is better to have excessive amounts of oxygen than not to. Paste as plain text instead, It is stable but can not maintain altitude. Running the 60U engine at about 40U seems to give me a good balance between reduced drag and air intake. Because when your engine has to take in air forcefully it automatically means there isn't enough surrounding your engine and that again means that air density and therefor air resistance must be pretty low too. . But maybe your patience? Grichman's answer got me in the right direction. I have enough patience to do the slow flying, but is it horribly inefficient? - Insane lift to weight didn't help. Remember that you need to have intakes somewhere in line with the engine to function at that altitude. If it's above the cross-hairs, you need a little less. Air temperatures vary with latitude and time of day. 2022 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. However, I've failed to build a vehicle to achieve this (without a hundred retries). Most SSTO space planes would be able to accomplish this easily. What are the altitudes for the various altitude record contracts? Which is capable of high altitude, high speed flight. AoA and G-force moderation. Building a High Altitude Jet | Stream pt. If you've attached them to your fuselage with zero AoA, what that means is that when you fly, you're going to have to have the entire plane pitched slightly above in order to generate lift. The Rapier, for example, works great as a high-altitude engine, precisely because it can go so fast. Display as a link instead, To reach the initial low Earth orbit of the International Space Stationof 300 km (now 400 km), the delta-v is over six times higher, about 9.4 km/s. Air Intake: Air Intake shows the amount of force your engine uses to suck air into the turbine. - Insane TWR didn't help. I recommend using a solid rocket booster (or 2 or 5) to you get you the altitude and then launch a small rocket powered plane. Clear editor. Kerbal Space Program 2 . Or about the same speed but 1000 m higher. Please consider starting a new thread rather than reviving this one. Range with this method is pretty short due to drag. Basically I can hit a target altitude of 20,000m but can not maintain it. You can halve the drag by climbing a bit less than 3500m. Dedicated to the growth and advancement of amateur rocket scientists! It is boosted into space by a launch vehicle, then re-enters Earth's atmosphere and lands as a spaceplane. Thanks. I wasn't expecting so many excellent answers! When I say ", You know you've nailed it correctly if, when you're in level flight, your. Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers.. Visit Stack Exchange Slap that behind a plane you'll be able to go beyond 20km without any trouble. Be sure to have enough intakes (I think maximum efficiency in stock is 1 ramjet intake per ~2 tons of plane, though that is aesthetically ridiculous), and if you're still running short of intake air, you can dip down a bit to speed up and get to denser air. Check out the website and try the game out for yourself :Dhttps://kerbalspaceprogram.com/ Even better, burn a little more, and you can pop out of the atmosphere for a bit and avoid all that nasty drag stuff. If you enter the Mun's SOI, it immediately counts as "In Space High over Mun" until you get below 60km Mun altitude. Your engine burns the same amount of jetfuel per second regardless of how high or fast you are! Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. 1Altitude requirement 2Orbit 3Speed, range, and altitude 4Flight duration 5Flight profiles 5.1Ballistic missiles 5.2Tourist flights 5.3Scientific experiments 5.4Sub-orbital transportation 6Notable uncrewed sub-orbital spaceflights 7Crewed sub-orbital spaceflights 8Future of crewed sub-orbital spaceflight 9See also 10References I've been trying my hand at some High altitude speedy planes for a while now, but can't seem to get a hang of the altitudes that each engine likes, I know kerbal isn't earth, so looking up the crushing altitude of say the sr71, doesn't seem to apply, but I was hoping that others experiences would help me. You need to do it with what you've got. What are the units of measure used in Kerbal Space Program? lost birth certificate near berlin; ksp high altitude plane. A well-designed jet with this engine and with the afterburner lit, flown properly, can momentarily climb to 30,000 m altitude. Aircraft can be very temperamental to fly, especially on the keyboard. Welcome to the forums. Have you checked out the wiki yet? Let me share what I know about jet engines, speed, and efficiency. That would oscillate slowly between 16000m and 17000m but was otherwise fully controllable. Also, Valley and Theomon fly to different corners of Kerbin and three mapping satellites are launched. Subscribe - http://www.youtube.com/c/MikeAben?sub-confirmation=1 Patreon - https://www.patreon.com/MikeAbenPatreon supporters receive early, ad-free, access to videos, kOS and craft files, and more. Discord - https://discord.gg/HTvT7dZ Making Space Home Playlist - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLB3Ia8aQsDKhqoFyoZ4d33MG7rS9KmDm_0:00 - Designing the Dudley Mk16:42 - Test Flights \u0026 Iterating13:45 - Col. Valley take the Seaplane to the Northern Ice Shelf19:30 - Launch \u0026 Insertion of the Maxwell Vb21:04 - Col. Theomon \u0026 Orlin Visit the Badlands in the Panther24:20 - Launch \u0026 Ejection of the Maxwell VI26:34 - Designing the SENTINEL 129:47 - Launch \u0026 Insertion of the Maxwell VIIFull List of Mods: Aviation Lights Chatterer Community Tech Tree Crew R\u0026R Croud Sourced Science Contract Configurator Contract Packs: Bases and Stations Reborn CommNet Relays Exploration Plus Field Research Kerbal Academy Tourism Plus Contracts Window+ Decoupler Shroud Easy Vessel Switch Kerbal Alarm Clock Kerbal Attachment System Kerbal Construction Time Kerbal Engineer Redux Kerbal Inventory System Kerbalism kOS KRASH Maneuver Node Evolved Navball Alignment Indicator Near Future Aeronautics Near Future Construction Near Future Electrical Near Future Propulsion Near Future Solar Near Future Spacecraft Persistent Rotation Rational Resources RCS Build Aid Continued Restock Restock+ SCANsat Scrapyard SMART Parts Stage Recovery Stockalike Station Parts Expansion Redux TAC Fuel Balancer Texture Replacer Trajectories Transfer Window Planner Universal Storage 2 Unkerballed Start Waypoint Manager Sustained flight at over 20km requires at a minimum the Panther in Afterburning mode. Your link has been automatically embedded. It will be expensive and time consuming. You can go above 20km with the J-404 Panther. Your previous content has been restored. Your previous content has been restored. Additionally please know that .16 will feature new code that will change the way space planes work in every aspect. And it's stock, unfortunately. You are simply running out of atmosphere (i.e. Highest and fastest possible is best. When added to a plane it allows tuning of the controls vs speed/altitude/G load/other factors. June 3, 2022 . I was generally under the impression that basic jets were mostly deadweight on high-performance aircraft: while they are superior for low-speed, low-altitude operations, they become deadweight at hypersonic velocities. Yes. Thanks for asking this, I've been struggling with the same problem in career mode. Should i add a larger wing area for higher lift? Kerbal Space Program ( KSP) is a space flight simulation video game developed by Mexican developer Squad for Linux, OS X, Windows, PlayStation 4, PlayStation 5, Xbox Series X/S and Xbox One. Just sounds like the engines can't get enough air, in KSP high speed also generates air intake so I'm guessing what is happening is that you have the initial speed to get to altitude but the lack of air at altitude is starving the engine resulting in lower speed which further reduces air intake and it cascades until either the engine shuts down or you return to denser atmosphere at a lower altitude. Something that I think has become less clear since someone updated the wiki. Chapter 4. I don't have that cockpit in my career game yet, but maybe it will work with the other one. These are the building blocks of solid spaceplane design!Subscribe! surface of jool. This causes the body of your plane to generate additional drag. Clear editor. From my observations I can say that "Efficiency" is not a good indicator of how well your engine performs. AoA itself refers to the angle of the wing (or the whole plane if the AoI is 0)relative to the airflow. Basically you just need to fiddle with it and try some test flights. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Due to the lower air pressure at higher altitudes its thrust output decreases accordingly. - Spamming airintakes didn't help. If released at a speed of 700 or more m/s and an altitude of 20 or more km, the satellite will achieve orbit with its second stage mostly full, leaving it with approximately 1600 m/s of delta-V -- enough to achieve lunar or interplanetary orbits and, on small bodies, landings. Using indicator constraint with two variables, Is there a solution to add special characters from software and how to do it. How to tell which packages are held back due to phased updates. Well, this game isn't a perfect flight simulator yet, so it will be difficult to figure out. You cannot paste images directly. Evidence. Once you're at that regime, you should be able to cover huge distances on tiny amounts of fuel. It may work with stock too, I just don't know. First off as of .15.1 intakes don't do anything. Yes. 2022 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. @SaintWacko's advice is probably the most practical. The main body is a fuel tank with a Swivel engine at the end. At about 400-500m/s (~15km), the two engines are even. I'm in career mode and got all groups of the 45-science-cost level, except Flight Control, and additionally have Electrics, Heavy Rocketry and Fuel Systems. Keep in mind that wheesley engine's performance decreases significantly as the altitude increases. *I use FAR these days, which basically means completely replacing every spaceplane and rocket you ever designed to account for its much more realistic aerodynamics. Thank you, I was able to reach up to 24km altitude with this design. Pasted as rich text. Ok, the panther engine is still not good enough. Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. Planes in Space. A full suite of flaps on the trailing edges of the main wings give it exceptional low-speed lift, and small hydroplane steps mounted on each side of the fuselage bottom help lift it out of the water (lowering water drag) during takeoff runs. high-1 A Screenshot of Kerbal Space Program By: miklkit This is the current version. My 'plane science' is more advanced than my 'rocket science' (career mode) because I got tired of seeing all the high-altitude missions I had on the books and wanted to finish them. If too much air runs into the turbine, the excessive amount just flows out unused through side-vents (I think). I'm trying to build a high altitude plane and have found out that the rules are different. So I'm pretty darn new to KSP, and my career has barely gotten started, and the jobs for crew observations seem to dominate I've been finding it difficult to build a jet that can fly over 15km alt. It's Kerbal Space Program v.22! Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. Using Kolmogorov complexity to measure difficulty of problems? The J-404 "Panther" Afterburning Turbofan is a jet engine added in version 1.0.5. Even up there the plane acts squirrely. Or try using SRBs instead. The thrust of jets (turbo or otherwise) depends on airspeed: basics deliver more thrust at low speeds, while turbojets only really come into their own when you fly very fast (which also means flying very high, 20km and over). Right now, my big, fat plane has trouble breaking 10 km altitude and 200 m/s forward speed (largely due to its payload). You can do that by right-clicking the engine and clicking "Toggle Mode." The drag differential is because your long-wing layout is using a bunch of struts, and the reason your delta-wing has a higher ceiling is because it has more wing area to provide lift. Each stage of the rocket has a delta-v that depends on the stage fuel mass and the engine specific impulse. So long as there's only one high-altitude measurement to take, you should be able to complete a whole set of 3-4 in one flight. Yes, you can get into that range with the high end stuff (whiplash engines and ram or shock cone air intakes). That annoys me but I can't seem to get a design to make it work. You can post now and register later. A jet engine from KSP 0.18 A jet engine is an air-breathing engine which uses onboard liquid fuel and combusts it with the oxygen drawn from the atmosphere. Your airspeed is mostly limited by terminal velocity; you can go much faster if you climb a little higher. I should perhaps start trying out NEAR to get ready of 0.90, though. I got this game so I could over-engineer rockets, so I mostly ignore the airplanes. KSP doesn't care (much) about aspect ratio; the total lift is the same regardless of configuration. That will unlock: KSP - High Altitude Aircraft 16,702 views Jan 22, 2016 172 Dislike Share Save Phoenix Fleet Systems 222 subscribers Have a type of atmospheric craft you'd like to see me experiment with? This works, but it's not optimal. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. So the faster you go the higher you can fly where there is less drag. To avoid running out of fuel altogether, I have a second plane with small tanks (no oxidizer) attached directly to the jet engines, and the rockets attached behind the fuselage, which is entirely oxidized tanks. Any advices for building a vehicle for this task? If it's below the cross-hairs, you need a little more AoA. Originally posted by lord bird: yep thats right jool has a surface. Or it can supercruise at three times the speed of an equivalent Wheesley jet (with nearly equal fuel efficiency) at 15,000 m altitude. I'm in career mode (have the turbofan engine) and trying to get some science readings for a mission at a high altitude. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. below 5,000 m), since the engine's extreme maneuverability may allow the aircraft to perform turns sharply enough to break up in flight. If you want to cover your aircraft with loads of intakes, I'm sure you could easily fly above 35km and reach 2000+ m/s velocity. The easiest "default" way to build a plane in KSP-- i.e. The ideal case for optimally efficient flight (which is what you want if you're trying to maximize cruise altitude) is when your wings are mounted to the body, pitched up just enough that when cruising in level flight, the body of the aircraft is pointing perfectly . Once I'm near or in the target area, I set the throttle to 0 and start the Swivel. As long as the engine gets enough air it will work at proper efficiency. Note that keeping the plane weight low is critical, only carry a very small amount of fuel. Contents 1 Usage 2 Construction 3 Categories 3.1 Airplane 3.2 Seaplane 3.3 Spaceplane 3.4 VTOL 3.5 Glider 3.6 Mothership 4 Operation 4.1 Flight records 5 Notes Usage What altitude and speed should I go? If you upgrade to the panther (or get one on a contract) that engine can get you much higher. principle. I was even able to do this with three pairs of Junos instead of the large jet engine pair (I don't have the technology level for that). If drag were the only concern, at any given altitude the slower you go, the less fuel you need: the work done by drag over a distance grows linearly with speed (the force grows quadratically with speed, but the time falls linearly). From my experience using a panther it starts to lose speed after 15-16 kms, a more suitable cruising height is 9-13km. 2.) Be aware that heat buildup can gradually become a problem when the afterburners are used in sustained flight. If your using NEAR/FAR, once you get high and fast, kill the engine and glide to save fuel. I tried building a plane but can't climb higher than about 11,000m (I don't have many plane parts yet, though). This page was last edited on 22 December 2019, at 20:54. The flight time won't be as long, but you'll be able to fly a "plane" above 18km. Your answer got me in the right direction, though I ended up with a different design (see my own answer). Delta-V is the velocity change necessary to perform orbital maneuvers. KSP Career: Episode 13 - High Altitude Surveys Mike Aben 28.5K subscribers Subscribe 7.7K views 7 years ago Day 114: A busy day at the KSC with three missions, the highlights being the launch. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. That will unlock: "Whiplash" Turbojet Which is capable of high altitude, high speed flight. By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. I didn't succeed with his design, though; I always ended up having somehow unstable airplanes. Proceed with caution. This is the first version. Best way to get down into thicker air and land is to perform what dogfighters called a 'Split-S'. It's also worth noting that this engine has the widest thrust vectoring range of all of the jet engines, with a full 10-degree range in all directions. You can post now and register later. Which makes this engine ideal for those missions which require doing many science activities above particular altitudes. ksp high altitude planebad bunny tour 2022 tickets ksp high altitude plane. There are two factors to that: how thick the air is, how fast the ship is going. even stranger is that the surface is textured. No, I think it's correct, unless I've got a brain fart going, here. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Thats my problem right now. Slap that behind a plane you'll be able to go beyond 20km without any trouble. Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. Content titles and body; Content titles only Sideslip handling. The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Not the answer you're looking for? Minimising the environmental effects of my dyson brain, Theoretically Correct vs Practical Notation. Press J to jump to the feed. General Electric F-404 Afterburning Turbofan, Stratus-V Cylindrified Monopropellant Tank, Kerbodyne KR-2L+ "Rhino" Liquid Fuel Engine, LFB KR-1x2 "Twin-Boar" Liquid Fuel Engine, T-1 Toroidal Aerospike "Dart" Liquid Fuel Engine, S1 SRB-KD25k "Kickback" Solid Fuel Booster, IX-6315 "Dawn" Electric Propulsion System, AE-FF1 Airstream Protective Shell (1.25m), AE-FF3 Airstream Protective Shell (3.75m), PB-NUK Radioisotope Thermoelectric Generator, https://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?title=J-404_%22Panther%22_Afterburning_Turbofan&oldid=95515. A destructible memorial to the old Mk. If that's all a case of Too Many Words, think of it this way: Suppose you just build a plane the "default" way and don't put any. Welcome to the forums, ZDW. The most efficient way is, of course, to make a high altitude (or space) plane. This can be done with moar boosters or more calculated wing and body design, depending on the aero model you use. FAR is supposed to take aspect into account, but I'm not very experienced with it and cannot advice you as to how it works. Here's Mr. Manley using it in his tutorial: @Pvt.Grichmann: I think it's at specific locations on Kerbin, not just anywhere above 18km. The maximum cruise altitude is just over 40,000 feet. TLDR: You need parts you don't have to make a plane that flies that high. Upload or insert images from URL. 1.) - but they were talking about having two intakes/engine. Pvt. air) that high up. Is it suspicious or odd to stand by the gate of a GA airport watching the planes? You can post now and register later. Either finish the low-altitudes and then spend all your fuel on the high-altitude boost, or do the boost first and save a little fuel or try to hit the rest through unpowered gliding. Challenges Using very light "engine rich" planes and "reverse swooping" (building velocity at 10km then gently curving up) you can temporarily get above 20km with Wheesely and Juno. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. To get higher with the low tech jet engines, you need rocket assist. This means that the only thing that decides wheter your engines run efficient is determined by how much thrust they produce (opt. Don't worry about Isp. 1 1: The basics 2 2: Setting it up 3 3: First flight 4 4: Finishing touches 1: The basics First of all, you're going to need an airplane. As I understand, the OP wanted "the most efficient way to fly", and simply needed a bit of help in realizing that that is a hypersonic, high-altitude, high-performance aircraft which is a RAPIER and a little oxidizer away from being an SSTO spaceplane. Though I'm still working on learning to be better at space planes. . Is it possible to get to an altitude of 16-20km with normal plane engines? In this case lots of fuel is the wrong approach, I can get more than half way around Kerbin on 2 cans of Jet Fuel and a turbojet if I glide most of it. To get there, you're going to want to climb at the fastest rate you can manage to 18-20 km, at which point you should mostly level off and start accelerating horizontally. As long a you can fly faster, the lower density at altitude can be compensated for. Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. You do get certain inertial and lever-arm effects, but those aren't really relevant to 'do I have enough lift to stay up'. I didn't try for 20000m as it probably wouldn't do well. and our I would like to know which altitude I have to maintain for my experiments. The idea is to slow the plane to a stall above your landing spot the pop the parachute. Powered by Invision Community, Thanks, I'll go try to stuff a few extra turbojets and intakes on my plane, I was generally under the impression that basic jets were mostly deadweight on high-performance aircraft: [] at hypersonic velocities. Mounting a time-limited rescue mission for kerbal inbound to Kerbin. You cannot paste images directly. Air Intake) and how fast your aircraft ultimately flies (air resistance/altitude)! Display as a link instead, Don't rely on the efficiency indicator! Technically, any rocket engine is also a jet engine as it forms a high-speed jet of reaction mass. By climbing, you reduce drag, exponentially with altitude. In the main KSP settings menu you should set the default throttle to 1.0 (technically the above mechjeb setting winds up restoring the default throttle, so it needs to be 1.0) In the attitude adjustment menu make sure you are using the "better controller" Whack the 45 degree phase margin button Whack the restore all other defaults button You may be correct and that 3 engine plane is a lemon. - Inside the atmosphere works the same way, except you need to be on an suborbital trajectory. Valve Corporation. Make sure you've angled your wings up slightly so that you provide enough lift for a 0 angle of attack at top speed. A little while back I spent a long time trying to circumnavigate Kerbin on the least liquid fuel possible (i posted the record to the sub: 254 units of fuel. Then it is "In Space Low over Mun.". 2022 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. Now I have a plane that will fly around the world at an altitude of the low-20s. All other versions are slower and lower and unstable in turns. Watch out for your SAS if you're running batteries without a jet for a long time. Air Flow: Air Flow represents with how much force air passes the turbine (notice: different amounts of air at the same speed equals in different amounts of force!). As has been said, ISP is nothing to worry about. KSP Quick Guides: High Altitude Design and Flying - Stock v.23 Stoober AK 3.32K subscribers Subscribe 21K views 8 years ago This tutorial will cover designing and flying a plane that can soar. I only seem to be able to make planes that can fly a bit below that altitude and then temporary rise to it. Anyway thanks in advance. The Inland Kerbal Space Center itself, being in effect the old Kerbal Space Center from 0.2. First is thrust; the higher you get, the lower the thrust your engines deliver. Pretty often, the tail "wiggled" and/or the plane became totally unstable when I fired the rocket boosters. What's the difference between a power rail and a signal line? That's just a guess, though-- perhaps someone more familiar with FAR could weigh in.).
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